I found this abstract on the internet and found it surprising. Because of the Danaid traditions I would have expected an Egyptian ancestry to be possible, but an Ethiopian ancestry is astonishing - how did they get there?

HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks

Tissue Antigens 2001 Feb; 57(2):118-127

Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, H. 12 de Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain. aarnaiz@eucmax.sim.ucm.es

Arnaiz-Villena A, Dimitroski K, Pacho A, Moscoso J, Gomez-Casado E, Silvera-Redondo C, Varela P, Blagoevska M, Zdravkovska V, Martinez-Laso J.

HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached:

1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians,

2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum,

3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.

FIRST OF ALL THE STUDY WAS REJECTED.YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A FAN OF MARTIN BERNAL WHO'S THEORIES ARE REJECTED BY VIRTUALLY ALL SCHOLARS.ALSO MACEDONIANS WERE A GREEK PEOPLE AND DIRECT AANCESTORS OF THE DORIANS
THE STUDY YOUR REFERING TO WAS POLITICAL PROPAGANDA BY THE FOR YUGO REP OF MACEDONIA --IN ADDITION THE SCIENTIFIC METHODS USED WERE REJECTED

Dropped genetics paper lacked scientific merit

Nature 415, 115 (10 January 2002) © Macmillan Publishers Ltd. Sir

They used a single genetic marker, HLA DRB1, for their analysis to construct a genealogical tree and map of 28 populations from Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Japan. Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.

The limitations are made evident by the authors' extraordinary observations that Greeks are very similar to Ethiopians and east Africans but very distant from other south Europeans; and that the Japanese are nearly identical to west and south Africans. It is surprising that the authors were not puzzled by these anomalous results, which contradict history, geography, anthropology and all prior population-genetic studies of these groups. Surely the ordinary process of refereeing would have saved the field from this dispute. We believe that the paper should have been refused for publication on the simple grounds that it lacked scientific merit. Neil Risch
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of
Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA Alberto Piazza
Department of Genetics, Biology and Biochemistry,
University of Torino, Via Santena 19, 10126 Torino, Italy L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of
Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA

HLA genes are not used as a valid measure to determine ancestry since HLA genes, which control immune responses and are subject to environmental selection. This means they're not reliable in determining ancestral affinity, as using them thus can find bonds of kinship between Greeks and Japanese, as well as between Nordics in Iceland and Negroids in the Congo (Mourant et al., 1976).

FIRST OF ALL THE STUDY WAS REJECTED.YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A FAN OF MARTIN BERNAL WHO'S THEORIES ARE REJECTED BY VIRTUALLY ALL SCHOLARS.ALSO MACEDONIANS WERE A GREEK PEOPLE AND DIRECT AANCESTORS OF THE DORIANS
THE STUDY YOUR REFERING TO WAS POLITICAL PROPAGANDA BY THE FOR YUGO REP OF MACEDONIA --IN ADDITION THE SCIENTIFIC METHODS USED WERE REJECTED

Dropped genetics paper lacked scientific merit

Nature 415, 115 (10 January 2002) © Macmillan Publishers Ltd. Sir

They used a single genetic marker, HLA DRB1, for their analysis to construct a genealogical tree and map of 28 populations from Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Japan. Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.

The limitations are made evident by the authors' extraordinary observations that Greeks are very similar to Ethiopians and east Africans but very distant from other south Europeans; and that the Japanese are nearly identical to west and south Africans. It is surprising that the authors were not puzzled by these anomalous results, which contradict history, geography, anthropology and all prior population-genetic studies of these groups. Surely the ordinary process of refereeing would have saved the field from this dispute. We believe that the paper should have been refused for publication on the simple grounds that it lacked scientific merit. Neil Risch
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of
Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA Alberto Piazza
Department of Genetics, Biology and Biochemistry,
University of Torino, Via Santena 19, 10126 Torino, Italy L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of
Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA

HLA genes are not used as a valid measure to determine ancestry since HLA genes, which control immune responses and are subject to environmental selection. This means they're not reliable in determining ancestral affinity, as using them thus can find bonds of kinship between Greeks and Japanese, as well as between Nordics in Iceland and Negroids in the Congo (Mourant et al., 1976).

"Japanese are nearly identical to west and south Africans."

Well that IS impossible.

What about the mixture between Bantu Balemba and Jews ?
chromosomes traveling south: the cohen modal haplotype and the origins of the Lemba--the "Black Jews of Southern Africa".Am J Hum Genet. 2000 Feb;66(2):674-86.

Thomas MG, Parfitt T, Weiss DA, Skorecki K, Wilson JF, le Roux M, Bradman N, Goldstein DB.

The Center for Genetic Anthropology, Departments of Biology and Anthropology, University College London, London, United Kingdom.

The Lemba are a traditionally endogamous group speaking a variety of Bantu languages who live in a number of locations in southern Africa. They claim descent from Jews who came to Africa from "Sena." "Sena" is variously identified by them as Sanaa in Yemen, Judea, Egypt, or Ethiopia. A previous study using Y-chromosome markers suggested both a Bantu and a Semitic contribution to the Lemba gene pool, a suggestion that is not inconsistent with Lemba oral tradition. To provide a more detailed picture of the Lemba paternal genetic heritage, we analyzed 399 Y chromosomes for six microsatellites and six biallelic markers in six populations (Lemba, Bantu, Yemeni-Hadramaut, Yemeni-Sena, Sephardic Jews, and Ashkenazic Jews). The high resolution afforded by the markers shows that Lemba Y chromosomes are clearly divided into Semitic and Bantu clades. Interestingly, one of the Lemba clans carries, at a very high frequency, a particular Y-chromosome type termed the "Cohen modal haplotype," which is known to be characteristic of the paternally inherited Jewish priesthood and is thought, more generally, to be a potential signature haplotype of Judaic origin. The Bantu Y-chromosome samples are predominantly (>80%) YAP+ and include a modal haplotype at high frequency. Assuming a rapid expansion of the eastern Bantu, we used variation in microsatellite alleles in YAP+ sY81-G Bantu Y chromosomes to calculate a rough date, 3,000-5,000 years before the present, for the start of their expansion.

Are you sure that "HLA genes are not used as a valid measure to determine ancestry since HLA genes, which control immune responses and are subject to environmental selection. "
Read this.

Vermont bill to use HLA genes to determine Native American ancestry
(Palo Alto, CA, June 6 and 13, 2000)

The Stanford Program in Genomics, Ethics and Society (PGES), of the Stanford Center for Biomedical Ethics, will hold a series of two seminars to discuss potential implications of a bill recently introduced in the Vermont State Assembly to use HLA genes to determine Native American ancestry.

The first seminar, to take place on June 6, 2000, will feature a discussion led by Joanna Mountain, Assistant Professor, Stanford Dept. of Anthropological Sciences.

The second seminar, to take place on June 13, 2000, will be led by Sandra Lee, Stanford Dept. of Anthropology.

The Works in Progress Seminar is a continuing feature of PGES, and is open to all those interested in the social, policy, and ethical implications of emerging genetic technologies. The sessions are planned to be open discussions of new work by the presenters.

For further information about this seminar series, please contact Mildred Cho at micho@leland.stanford.edu or phone 650-725-7993.

Philipp:

the Arnaiz-Villena study lacked scientific merit because it used 1 HLA locus to determine kinship between populations. To achieve separability between two major races you can't rely on one locus.

Yes Dienekes,

However read this abstract of Arnaiz-Villena from 2002 congress. He reveals other genetical loci confirming his HLA conclusions.

A Arnaiz-Villena
Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, Hospital 12 de Octubre, Universidad
Complutense, Madrid, Spain. E-mail: aav@efd.net

The distribution of HLA gene frequencies has been studied in Mediterraneans and Amerindians. A revision of the historic postulates in the Mediterranean area should be undertaken since HLA genomics shows that:

1) Greeks share an important part of their genetic pool with sub-Saharan Africans (Ethiopians and West Africans). This is confirmed by other genes from different chromosomes.

2) Turks (Anatolians) do not differ from other ancient Mediterraneans, showing that the Asian Turks carried out an ‘elite’ invasion with a cultural importance (language) but that is not genetically detected.

3) Kurds and Armenians are genetically very close to Turks and other Middle East populations.

4) There is no genetic trace of the so called Aryan invasion, which has only been defined on doubtful linguistic bases.

5) Iberians, including Basques, are related to North-African Berbers.

6) Present day Algerian and Moroccan urban and country people show an indistinguishable HLA profile.

On the other hand, Meso and South American Amerindians HLA gene frequencies were compared with the rest of the world populations also by using genetic distances, neighbour-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. Meso and South American Amerindians tend to remain isolated from the rest of the world, including Africans, Europeans, Asians, Australians, Polynesians, North American Na-Dene Indians and Eskimos.

So, there are other loci CONFIRMING the HLA results that Greeks are genetically close to the Sub-Saharan populations. Even Herodotes claimed that.

"Yannis", please don't post crap in my blog.

I am not learned in geneology, and as such I would like to obtain information on the genetic closeness of modern-day Iberians to that of other gene pools.

Yes I agree with this evidence because i am an ethiopian and a lot of people don't see me as a typical black person, they think i'm mix or i'm indian. The ethiopians and the Greeks share an ancient religion called Orthodox Christianity, so i think there is a little connection. I always saw myself as a pure black person but i couldn't figure out why i had natural curly hair instead of nappy.

You are wright. Have you seen Ethiopians. They are compleately different from the Africans. They have european faces with dark color.